Not-Stock Glock PDW Update

| April 14, 2016 | 13 Comments

The “Not-Stock Glock” PDW concept is something that Suarez International has been experimenting with over the last four or five months. It’s an interesting idea for those people who can’t or don’t want to possess a pistol caliber SBR.

I’ve written about this concept a few times (here, here, and here), but I was able to do some drills with mine and I wanted to share my observations.

DSC06176-01

My Setup

  • Gen 3 Glock 19
  • Glock factory barrel
  • Glock factory slide, milled by Suarez International to accept a Trijicon RMR RM07
  • Glock suppressor sights
  • ENDO Glock stock adapter
  • KAK Industries Shockwave Blade pistol brace
  • KAK Industries Shockwave pistol buffer tube
  • Leapers folding adapter

Drills

  • 4 rounds on a target, move, 4 rounds on the next target (short range)
  • 2 rounds on target, move, 2 rounds on the same target (longer range)
  • Moving while shooting
  • Moving while reloading
  • Reloading from my bag

Range setup

Observations

The red dot and suppressor sights make this a viable idea. I tried an ENDO stock before on my NFA-registered Glock. It sucked. The factory irons were too low, and my preferred aftermarket sights would have been even worse.

Shooting the Not Stock Glock mostly mimics my experience with my NFA-registered SBR MasterPiece Arms 930SST MAC 10. The NSG is not quite as good at longer ranges, despite the 930SST’s 3.5″ barrel.

At shorter ranges, the presence of the brace helps manage recoil. It becomes very difficult to miss at “traditional” handgun ranges. In my opinion, this is the biggest strength of pistol-caliber PDW / SBR. Shooting an unsupported handgun at this distance with the same speed and accuracy is a skillset that most beginner — and some intermediate — handgun students do not possess.

The next time you are at the range, press the trigger as quickly as you can four times. Don’t think about sight picture, or proper grip, or even good trigger control. Just rock it as fast as you can. With the Not Stock Glock and an RMR, you can pretty much do this and stack the rounds right on top of each other.

At longer ranges, the presence of the brace provides an additional contact point with the firearm. This is a huge advantage in making follow up shots as rapidly as possible. I found that the Not Stock Glock was more difficult to shoot accurately / quickly than my SBR 930SST, but much more consistent than just shooting with the handgun alone. I would say that my rate of fire on follow up shots was at least twice as fast as unsupported, if not more so.

Why is this important? Increasingly, fight-focused schools are advocating for headshots against active shooters and terrorists. Reasons commonly cited are body armor, explosive devices, and hostages.

I think any intermediate student with good training, equipment, discipline, and quality defensive ammunition can make a single headshot from a pistol at 10 yards. Most can make them at 25 yards, and a red dot makes it feasible for most at 40 yards.

However, I believe that one round from a handgun-caliber firearm at 40+ yards may not be enough to stop a threat. We train to shoot four rounds at shorter distances because of poor pistol ballistics. Additional rounds become more important if we extend that range to 40+ yards, from a 4″ barreled pistol. The potency of a handgun round is only going to get worse as distance increases.

If you’re considering a Not Stock Glock (or a shoulder-fired SBR), the longer-range shooting is the better test. Take your handgun and get headshots at 40+ yards. How quickly can you score at least two hits on the “head” part of this target:

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Now try it again with the Not Stock Glock or a shoulder-fired SBR. Should be much easier and faster.

Keep in mind that in a real situation no one is going to stand there and let you plink at their face, but at most shooting ranges this is the best we can do.

Conclusion

Overall, I think the NSG is a passable solution for people who are unwilling or unable to own a similarly sized SBR. Without a folding stock, the NSG presents the same size considerations as a rifle-caliber SBR / PDW with a folding stock. Adding a folder to the NSG helps with portability (and thereby bag selection) — but it’s much thicker than my SBR MAC10, which is even shorter / smaller still.

I think the NSG may make an interesting in-house option for families with varying levels of aptitude with a firearm. Leave a pistol attached to the NSG with a silencer and a weapon mounted light, and I reckon just about anyone would be able to shoot it very effectively.

About the Author:

Short Barrel Shepherd Short Barrel Shepherd is a regular guy and works to make Web sites and mobile apps easier for people to use. He spends his free time attending fight-focused firearm, knife, and combatives training, motorcycling, writing, and playing games. His daily carry is a Glock 19 pistol and an AR15 .300 Blackout pistol in a backpack.
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13 Comments on "Not-Stock Glock PDW Update"

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  1. Nick says:

    The one time I am sad I went GEN4. I have the expensive parts of this build. Gun, RMR, Slide… Sigh.

  2. Martin Luther says:

    Dimensions and weight of the NSG verses your Mac 10?

    • Short Barrel Shepherd Short Barrel Shepherd says:

      I should do a follow up with that information, good idea. I really want a 930DMG, I think the aluminum frame would help in the weight department.

  3. Quasimofo says:

    If you’re looking for a means to secure the trigger while this NSG is in your pack or slung on your person, i would suggest contacting Brian at Mills Tactical. He has some custom kydex trigger guard products, the Night Stand and the Camper, that are compatible with rail mounted lights and have worked pretty well with my NSG configuration.

    • Short Barrel Shepherd Short Barrel Shepherd says:

      Thanks for the information, I’ll check them out.

      For other folks reading this: the issue of how to safely stow the NSG (or similar) after a round is in the chamber is still being resolved. I carry all of my bag-carried firearms with an empty chamber, but the question remains what to do after the shooting starts.

      • Quasimofo says:

        Looks like their web site is temporarily down, but you might still be able to google the products and images. Brian’s phone and email also work. Looks like their FB is still up, too. My experience with Mills was good: decent pricing and good customer service.

        I and many others have been playing around with the NSG concept for fun and PDWing for almost a year and a half (SI is a behind on this, but I’m sure they’ll promote the heck out of it as long as they can make a buck), since ENDO came out with a new batch of adapters and the ATF made several rulings relating to non-stock items. I prefer a Thordsen cheek rest vs the Blade because, for some reason, I shoot better with it, but this is clearly a YMMV thing. The Mills trigger guard is the best thing I’ve come across thus far to address the safety issue for my purposes.

  4. B R KURTZ B R KURTZ says:

    I like the Endo/Glock combo BUT its definitely NOT a replacement for a SMG (Short barreled clone). Just as Stocked Pistols failed in every military context, they also fail in civilian use WHEN PUSHED TOO FAR. Its not so much about using the pistol at long distance, as it is about expecting it to perform in the SMG realm.

    I have a Glock/Endo (PDW). Its pretty perfect for that role. Its LIGHTWEIGHT when thats a concern and it swops mags with my CCW pistol (I very much DO NOT like carrying the stock separate to attach after shots have been fired). The major drawback for me at least is its size. In the fixed configuration its as LONG as a Sterling SMG. When folded its FAT. Conversely my Masterpiece Arms SBRd Mac 10 that uses STEn mags is tiny. It has a very slim Vz58 folding stock that keeps it trim while folded BUT its HEAVY–very heavy compared to my Glock.

    If I “knew” I was going into bad places Baltimore City, Id take the Mac10 or any other SBRd SMG clone; but if I was being dragged out for a day of shopping, I might “suffer” the longer bag because its lighter AND because in the event of a mall shooting I tell myself the gun would be to EVAC not go looking for a fight…

    • Short Barrel Shepherd Short Barrel Shepherd says:

      I 100% agree and am going to do a small piece on this very topic soon. I’m trying to get an MPA DMG series MAC in my possession to see if the aluminum makes much of a weight difference.

      • B R KURTZ B R KURTZ says:

        One thing Ive noticed that helps (especially with the heavier guns), is a stiffener in the bag. It can be a simple as cardboard. Kydex or one of the mold-able poly-raz-ma-taz plastics is better; but Ive gotten good results with just using regular corrugated cardboard that ive covered with duct tape or some of the sticky shelf liner paper. As a side benefit, it also “quiets” the “thunk” sound when you set the bag down or bump into something.

  5. E W says:

    I was under the impression that the Endo stock adaptor does not work with a Glock 19.

    • Short Barrel Shepherd Short Barrel Shepherd says:

      It does, you just need to drill another hole for the retaining pin. On a Gen 4 you also need to remove some material.

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