The “Not Stock Glock” Concept

| December 30, 2015 | 23 Comments

glock-shockwave

The “Not Stock Glock” (NSG) concept appears to be the brainchild of the folks over at KAK Industries. It’s currently being kicked around over at the Suarez International WarriorTalk forums, and I figured it was worth a mention here.

Specifications:

Okay, here’s why this is supposedly OK (I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, I am not verifying that this is legal or not legal):

  • The ENDO adapter by itself is not a stock. It’s an adapter.
  • The Shockwave tube plus the brace is legal, because it’s designed to be put against the forearm. I fired the Angstadt Arms UDP-9 this way, and if I can get hits at 10 yards with a ~6-pound AR15 9mm pistol this way, it should be a breeze with a Glock handgun.
  • The Shockwave tube without the brace is supposedly not legal, because a Glock doesn’t need a buffer tube for normal operation unlike an AR15. This is the same reasoning that an AK, MAC, H&K, etc with a pistol tube + brace is okay, but not without. Again, not saying if this is true or not, but that’s the logic.

I didn’t care for the ENDO on an NFA Glock 17 with stock iron sights. I couldn’t get a good sight picture, and wound up getting the best results point shooting with the adapter and stock against my forearm. I was effectively point shooting, with the pistol consistently indexed. This is just like the KAK Industry Blade is supposed to be used.

I would be interested in trying this concept again, this time with an RMR and suppressor sights.

The Blade was not very comfortable when shooting with a cheek weld (see my Angstadt Arms review), but it by far the most streamlined brace out there.

One thing that isn’t clear is if the NSG is meant to be carried with the ENDO adapter installed or not.

If it’s supposed to be installed, I imagine the overall length is the same as my MPA 930SST MAC10 SBR with the stock unfolded. In my case, there may not be much reason for me to carry the NSG.

If it’s meant to be carried in a bag as an accessory, I am very curious to see what the installation time and procedure is like — especially under duress with a loaded handgun in one’s hand. Based on our thoughts on when to deploy your SBR, we assume that the ENDO adapter + Shockwave Blade would go on after dealing with immediate threats, or when there is enough time to rummage around in a bag.

Are you interested in the Not Glock Stock concept?

About the Author:

Short Barrel Shepherd Short Barrel Shepherd is a regular guy and works to make Web sites and mobile apps easier for people to use. He spends his free time attending fight-focused firearm, knife, and combatives training, motorcycling, writing, and playing games. His daily carry is a Glock 19 pistol and an AR15 .300 Blackout pistol in a backpack.
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23 Comments on "The “Not Stock Glock” Concept"

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  1. Jon says:

    I’m only interested from the perspective of seeing how many holes can be punched in the NFA before more people start to realize how dumb most of it is. If the HPA passes, I don’t think it will be much longer before SBRs and SBSs are removed, possibly along with certain types of AOWs.

    • CR Williams says:

      I’m wondering the opposite more, I think–it or when ATF will double down on restrictions and declare everything a ‘redesign’ no matter how innocuous it really is. It didn’t help that the Sig brace was thrown in their faces the way it was by some people.

      It could go either way–opening or tightening. I’m betting on tightening. We’ll see.

  2. Tommy says:

    So…have we seen anything in writing, from ATF, that says this is not an SBR? I would be interested once they provide an opinion in writing. Carrying two handguns, one for fast response, and a second as a faux SBR really does interest me.

  3. B R Kurtz B R Kurtz says:

    I certainly think theres too much “asking for permission”. Its NEVER a good thing-especially with the government and twice so with the ATF. Im NOT suggesting any blatant violations, rather an honest reading and interpretation of the law as written. FIRST policy letters mean virtually nothing AND what little they DO mean is limited to the specific questioner. SECOND the decisions are almost never favorable AND even when they are, only serve to the issue to the attention of agents, examiners, and administrators who serve a different master.

    As to the Endo/Brace combo, it seems to meet the definition necessary to be legal. Yes its close to a stock (making it a SBR) but its a combination of parts that are approved (so long as its NOT used as a shoulder stock).

    Is it worth the cost and effort? Hmmmm, cost is minimal in the terms of modern handguns (under $200). Effort, well thats minimal (screw a buffer tube on to the Endo adapter, slip on the brace and tighten the set screw–then the brace slips in the hole in the base of the grip and snugs up against the top of the grip-theres a small pin which locks the unit in place). Its pretty simple. Can it be done under stress of incoming rounds while youre running from cover to cover–probably not. OTOH it can be done fairly quickly BEFORE youre identified as a target. It can also be PRE-Assembled and carried in a bag. So does it work, well YES. Does it work as well a a real stock, NO of course not. A real stock gives 4 points of contact (hand hand cheek shoulder). Using this without a shoulder hold means only 3 points of contact. Thats still better than a rigid Weaver without any added support and a heck of a lot better the “hommie half tilt”.

    Finally DONT act a fool on YouTube or offer to stand guard in front of a recruiting center with your Glock shouldered wearing plastic shoes and baggy shorts.

  4. Jim says:

    I am definitely following your comments. I would also consider this with a Thordsen Custom cheek rest. I found that rest comfortable enough with an AR pistol and think it would have application here.

  5. Brent Yamamoto says:

    The NSG is fantastic with a red dot. It’s accurate, compact, light, and incredibly handy. For those looking for an easy bag-carry gun that is more than a pistol, I think this is THE answer (at least for now). I have tried many different variations on this theme, and the NSG beats them all.

    I have tried it without the dot and indeed the front sight blurs out. Still, while you’re not going to get eyeball accuracy, I found you can still put all rounds in a fist size hole out to 50ish feet (this isn’t hard with a pistol either but I can do it faster with the NSG). Even without a dot, the NSG makes things a lot easier…and while it certainly doesn’t replace the pistol you wear, it is definitely a good option for a fast deploying, light and easy to handle gun in a vehicle, office, or the right kind of bag.

    Fast mag changes are difficult with your primary hand but easily accomplished with the support hand.

    The brace DOES offer some additional support for one handed shooting, as was designed. There are some circumstances this would actually be useful.

    The Endo is easily adaptable to a G19 frame, while still working perfectly on a 17 frame. (I don’t know why they don’t just offer it that way). Modifying it for a Gen 4 gun is also easily done but I think it would then be too loose for Gen 3 frames.

    The Shockwave is totally comfortable for a cheek weld for me. Personally I see no issues there.

    I have ordered a folding mechanism for it. More to come…

  6. RoughEdge says:

    could use one of the cheap buffer tube folding kits folks put on AK’s and the like.
    http://www.usmachinegun.com/proddetail.php?prod=SF-ARAD2

  7. B R KURTZ B R KURTZ says:

    Regarding the folding adapters, I definitely think this is the place for one with an EASY release. Its one thing to require a bit of “Leverage” when its on a rifle and a full size rifle stock but quite a bit different on a pistol and unit like the Endo, where leverage could possibly dislodge it. As an example I have a older ACE folding mechanism, where I have to press the hinge down and the rifle up to open/close VS the Law Tactical unit that has a simple and easy button to unlock it.

    Additionally since this is gonna be used on a separate gun from the regular CCW gun Im not 100% convinced it needs to lock in the folded position, as doing so make one more step to get the gun into action.

    • CR Williams says:

      I think it does need to lock out folded to insure that there is a rigid structure for consistent index and eye relief to the optic (if you have one) and so that you’re not surprised by it folding or trying to fold suddenly when you’re firing.

      • Cymond says:

        I think he means “folded”, as in “folded in half”. It doesn’t need to lock in the storage/transport position. It should definitely lock in the extended, “unfolded” position.

  8. Cymond says:

    KAK may have come up with this version, but I saw Glocks with braces a while back. Here’s a guy who put a Sig brace on his Glock back in June 2014. https://youtu.be/FVCpEopMGvE

    I ordered an Endo adapter to build one of these myself. I have a gen-3 G34 that I’ve considered SBRing, but doing it has complications. The engraving, tax stamp, and a nice adapter is too much to spend all at once for me. I’m not even sure I would like it! My plan is that if I like the NSG, I’ll file a Form 1 and put on a basic stock. Then I could eventually buy a better stock or chassis.

    Also, I found this underfolding stock. It’s a pity you deregistered you G19. This might have worked for you, except it probably has no cheek weld. OTOH, it would be extremely small and light weight. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=536880061

  9. JonSnow says:

    Have you considered a Kel Tec Sub 2000? They are not pretty, but the folded size should fit in a bag really well and it doesn’t have any NFA issues.

    Curious about your thoughts on this.

    • CR Williams says:

      I ran a first-gen S2K for a while–had a briefcase set up to hold it and the companion pistol and extra mags. It’s an accurate-enough weapon but I consider it sub-optimal for this purpose now that other systems are available. Unless Kel-Tec has beefed it up in the 2nd Gen version it’s not a hard-use weapon like other options. The only advantage is that it’s a carbine and doesn’t require additional adds or tax stamps to set it up for this role.

      • JonSnow says:

        Hmm, those are interesting points. What are the specs on the not stock Glock – OAL, weight and such?

        • CR Williams says:

          That depends on which Glock you attach. I currently have an SI-335 slide (G35 slide replacement) with the Endo/Shockwave setup with a UTG folder on it. Current length unfolded is about 24″. The KAK tube on it allows the Shockwave to be adjusted for length with an Allen wrench. What I believe I will be doing is reducing it to 22″ unfolded or close to it. Folded the system goes about 14.5″ and can be fired that way if needed.

          • CR Williams says:

            Forgot to add: Had the G22 slide on it first and without a folder mechanism it ran about 22″ with the Shockwave set flush with the tube end. I’ve seen a G19 (you have to drill an extra hole in the Endo and do some sanding to help that work) set up that’s probably around 20-21″.

  10. Lane says:

    Its 4/25/17. I have the setup like you described, endo adapter and kak blade and tube. With the new rulling on braces, is this legal to shoulder every once in a while? I cant find any info on this subject right now. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

    • Short Barrel Shepherd Short Barrel Shepherd says:

      Hi there — I’m not a lawyer, and I’ve already been burned by the ATF’s flip flopping on braces, so I am going to give you the safe answer: I do not advise intentionally shouldering the brace.

      When doing a test fire of the Angstadt Arms UDP-9 pistol, I was concerned that the brace was going to bump into my shoulder during firing. With the current ATF letter (remember, it’s more like a policy statement, and not a law), I wouldn’t sweat it if the Shockwave brace came away from my cheek weld and contacted my shoulder.

      In short, I am interpreting this current opinion letter as a safety measure against unintentional shouldering / contact with the brace, not as an OK to put a brace on my shoulder.

      You might find folks / Web sites that suggest otherwise, but I don’t trust the ATF to stay consistent.

      • Lane says:

        Thats true. You never know what they are going to do. I appreciate your quick response. Have a great night, and thanks again.

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